Training Log: Forum Meeting (Cyberkwoon & MAP) - Still Injured

UK Cross-Forum Meeting (not that any forum outside of Cyberkwoon attended…except for MAP, I found out afterwards), Farnborough, 19/11/2005

I’ve been waiting for this for several months now, Dave having set it up back in August. I had also been hoping that widening it out to a few other forums would increase the numbers, but unfortunately I didn’t see anyone from Bullshido or MAP there (though to be fair, I only posted up the information shortly before the meet itself). It may be that the two people from Bullshido who said they’d be interested in popping along (because they live in the area) will come along tomorrow.

Upon first arriving, there was no-one there, which was slightly worrying, but after doing my usual confused wander around and through the Community Centre, I found some Kwooners in the car-park. Jamie Clubb, Dimi and Dave were all there, along with Dimi’s instructor (whose name was Stephen, I think), Dimi’s girlfriend Elke and another girl from the club whose name I didn’t catch.

The meet started off with everyone chatting; one of the main reasons I felt motivated to attend despite my dodgy shoulder (which very annoyingly was still stopping me sparring) was the social side of things. This set the tone of the meeting – there was a lot of talking! I’ve met a reasonable number of people from the internet now, and pretty much all of them have been pleasant, personable individuals. Today was no exception; also a continuing pleasure to geek out with fellow MA obsessives, even getting some poetry discussion in with Dave on the lift to Farnborough North. :P

The first bit of physical action came with Jamie’s RBSD session. Unlike last time, he didn’t do the whole ‘vocalisation’ thing, which certainly pleased me; I found it hard to get into the roleplay last time. The drills were again focused around the fence, using pads; as soon as the pad guy touched your arm, you threw a right hook, or if they simply moved in, you pushed back. Doing it with just the one arm was occasionally a little awkward, and eventually it became more of an excuse for me to work my hook. Dave came over for some advice on adding power, and I also had my usual babble of questions for Jamie about the technique (mainly I was interested in the consequences of breaking your hand). Effectively what he was trying to teach, if I understood it correctly, was to get in the first shot, get it in hard, and keep throwing whatever you can with whatever you can until the situation is under your control. This was driven home by further padwork in that vein, adding in elbows and hammerfists on top, while trying to break the habit of going straight into guard.

After Jamie’s RBSD, there was some further chatting, followed by Dave’s Wing Chun. This was a bit similar to the last Wing Chun session he gave in March, as once again various students held forth on the ‘centre-line’ principle whilst demonstrating how they would defend that centre-line and deflect attacks. I asked a few questions about kicks and circular techniques, and learned that kicks are dealt with in the same way as ‘sticky hands’ is utilised against punching; ‘sticky legs’. The session eventually dissipated into such discussions accompanied by demonstration, rather than any drills, finally losing the physical aspect altogether as I had a long chat with Dave about his views on Wing Chun. Interesting points that came out of that were his views that it doesn’t function well under a ruleset and is therefore unsuited to competition, that he doesn’t feel sparring is too useful in the way he teaches a class (though he is by no means unfamiliar to sparring, having a history in boxing), and that he disagrees with those who try to market Wing Chun as something that fits everyone. I’m trying to keep an open mind about Wing Chun, but it still doesn’t really appeal. I’m sure that’s partly due to the constant criticism and various bullshido of some commerically minded instructors, but basically for me it’s a matter of taste.

Third up was Dimi’s instructor, who runs the ‘Fit2Fight’ club in Belgium, teaching MMA under the moniker ‘free fight’. I’d been looking forward to this, since Dimi told me that some transitional techniques from stand-up to grappling would be shown; I’d mentioned this as something I’d like to learn in a Cyberkwoon thread earlier. All the drills started off with jab, cross, low kick, and then for the first one, you followed round with the kick, sunk down, reached over and pushed the other guy to the ground with your body weight, pulling your own leg back and through to go into side mount.

I found myself partnered up with someone I didn’t know, who had arrived a bit later on, who turned out to be a guy I’ve ‘known’ (i.e., posted alongside) on forums for years: aamc99 (Andrew). I didn’t cotton on to this until we were doing the second drill, when he mentioned he did Southern Praying Mantis – Andrew is the guy who set up the JFS Bradford seminar along with Nish (who posts on Bullshido as kismet, I think). We were supposed to be doing a technique in which after the jab, cross, low-kick, you then shot in and pushed through for mount. However, I found that discussing SPM and internal CMA with Andrew was a lot more interesting. I was particularly intrigued by his demonstration of body mechanics, soon making it clear to me just how much extra force could be generated by a thorough understanding of body alignment, like the ‘open/close’ position (he said it had a number of names, but that’s the one I remember) based around the chest, spine and hips. Not that I got anything more than a feel for it in those few minutes, but it did get me thinking about CMA, which I’ve never really bothered with before (ZSK is supposedly a CMA, but I’ve always seen it as a well-taught kickboxing class with a few forms thrown in).

After a third technique, in which you distracted your opponent into closing his guard, then slipped down to his leg, grabbed the ankle and pushed outwards on the inner leg with your forearm for the takedown, we finished up (while I learned some more about CMA from Andrew). The meet then moved to the mats, where a few of us exchanged a few submissions, Jamie delving a bit deeper into the triangle. This was due to it being a particularly successful technique for some BJJ competitors at a tournament Fit2Fight had recently fought at – Jamie showed one counter, then we gathered round my laptop to look at the triangle escape to kneebar Erik Paulson used. It also gave me the opportunity to ask Jamie about his training at Gracie Barra in Birmingham, which I plan to check out once term ends.

The final seminar of the day (leaving the total similar to March at about 4hrs) was taken by Matt Williams , who went through the ‘fa jin’ principle in a plethora of CMA, like baiji, taiji and xing yi. That therefore involved doing things like a punch driving through with the leg but heel kept on the floor, or whipping the arm diagonally downwards into the opponents shoulder. However, both Dimi and I found that these techniques started straining on the sore spots – we were both carrying injuries, mine in the shoulder his in the leg. So, we went through some more submissions instead. ;)

As ever, its great to talk to people in person who you’re used to seeing as words on a screen, and also cool to put a face to aamc99, as I remember the days when we both used to post on Tung-Fu before it went down the shitter. I’m hoping that the next meet will be a little better attended (although as with last time, Dave’s students bumped up the numbers, further helped by Dimi’s entourage). To that end, I’m going to try and set something up in Coventry, but that depends on Warwick Uni Sports Centre – we shall see. I missed out on sparring, but my shoulder refused to sort itself out in time; next meet will hopefully make up for it. Elke was behind a camera for much of the day, so with luck vids could be posted up soon! :D

Training Log: MMA

(Having already hurt my toe, rather pathetically, at the Kwooner Meeting, I decided to pick up some more debilitating injuries...)

The Mauler's Cage Fighters Gym, (MMA), Steve Dempsey, Harrow, UK - 23/03/2005

I’d forgotten just how tough Steve’s class was! As last time, my clothes gradually transformed from a t-shirt and gi-trousers to a damp dishcloth, and I once again succeeding in ripping the skin off my left knuckles (though that was probably rather heavily affected by crappy punching technique and 4 ounce MMA gloves). Also, Rayner’s Lane remains a very irritating station to get home to Amersham from, particularly if the train you’re planning to get is cancelled, as happened this time. Grr.

The warm up was the same as before – running on the spot, lots of sprawling, supporting your back and cycling your legs, press-ups, sit-ups, and seal crawls both with and without people holding your ankles. I was so good at that last exercise that my progress went into minus figures, while when it was my turn to do the holding, my grip left much to be desired – the ankles in question swiftly slipped out of my grasp and scampered up the length of the hall.

We then moved into the arduous stand-up padwork, again, as before. The person with pads would simply change positions to indicate different strikes, but none were called, only implied. This seemed to go on forever, until eventually we switched round, which happened twice, though I think it was shorter on the repetition. More specifically MMA drills were included, such as taking down the person with the pads and working strikes from the mount and from guard. Punches moved to kicks, with two people holding kick shields while one person was literally bounced from one to another on the same principles of the punching drills (i.e., pad position was supposed to indicate the strike rather than verbal instructions, although the two people called out ‘knees’ , ‘elbows’ and ‘front kick’ anyway).

To finish off with, Steve moved on to groundwork. For the first section, one person defended and the other tried to submit them. I was initially quite pleased with myself, successfully holding off my opponent by clinging as tightly as I could to a full and then a half-guard, but judging by the next section, the opponent in question wasn’t all that versed in groundwork (apologies to nebulous ‘person’ if he in fact was). The second section proved to me once again just how much my grappling sucks, as this time, both partners attacked. I was thoroughly schooled by a BJJ guy in the fine art of leaping under someone’s full mount in record time; my usual cling-like-a-terrified-barnacle tactic failed to have any effect.

All in all, the same factors dissuade me from training there again anytime soon as they did before – late finish, distance, and I'm a wuss. I could also do with more specific technique training, like I get at the Heathrow club. However, also as I said last time, I would recommend Steve Dempsey’s club, especially if you’re keen to get fit, and the atmosphere was entirely lacking in the machismo which occasionally mars MMA clubs – Steve is actively involved in training fighters for the women’s competitive circuit (there was a woman training that night, but I’m not sure if she was part of the fight team or not). Finally, as always with MMA clubs (in my limited experience so far, at least), the 2 hours only cost £5. Undoubtedly value for money, a gallon of sweat for each pound!

Training Log: MMA

(in September, I posted up this review of the gathering a few of us from Tung-Fu have in Heathrow, which generally gets referred to as 'Heathrow MMA', though it isn't technically a club and Colin insists he isn't technically an instructor...)

Heathrow Tung-Fu gatherings, (MMA), Colin Boylan, Isleworth, UK -24/09/04

I've been about 3 or 4 times now, at two different locations (though its normally the place in Isleworth). Getting there is a bit awkward (in my case, requiring a generous lift from Colin), and it also takes a while to get to Osterley from Blackfriars - this becomes more of a problem on the way back, as I then have to go all the way up to Amersham, meaning I get home rather late.

However, that is one of only two major negative points about the class (though its not quite an official 'class' just yet, more a gathering of like-minded individuals), the other being the low quality mats we have to put up with, which have virtually no traction and not a great deal of padding. Everything else about the class is well-suited to my goals in MMA.

The sessions are run by Colin, and it is usually attended by the same people, generally a very small number (the most I've seen is 6). The session begins with everyone warming themselves up, with basic flexibility exercises, or some people might pound one of the hanging bags a bit. After that, Colin leads us through a few warm-up drills - e.g., moving through various positions, like escaping scarf-hold into side-control, swivelling from being back mounted into the opponents full mount, passing the guard with varying levels of resistance, neck-bridging etc.

The main part of class is taken up with technique - last session, I asked Colin beforehand if we could work some leg subs, which we did, going through heel hooks, knee bars and achilles locks, followed by a look at subs from the guard. Colin will demonstrate on someone, then we'll work through the technique in pairs. After that, Colin will generally show a counter, and he finished by doing a quick recap of all the techniques.

The last part of the session is devoted to rolling, usually without strikes being thrown either standing or whilst grappling, though we did try adding them in last session on the ground to see the difference. Each spar goes for about a minute, then we either switch partners or two fresh people come on, depending on how knackered the previous pair are!

Its a shame I can't get down more often, due to the timing and distance, as its an enjoyable, informative class with an especially friendly atmosphere due to the way in which it came about (from various people on this forum wanting to meet up and share ideas). Will definitely be back down again, if only to pay Colin back for that fiver I lent...

Training Log: MMA

(and the next night, back to Elephant and Castle for my final session at Elite...)

Elite Fighting Systems, (MMA), Dave O'Donnell, London, UK - 03/09/04

Lots more people this session, including the Elite 'demo team', which explained why there was a guy doing backflips as I got in, which was pretty cool. Apparently he's a stuntman. The demo team performance seemed to effectively be some nicely choreographed stage fighting, with various senior members of the class acting out a street scene with various techniques applied during the confrontation.

There was more of a warm this session, shadow boxing on the spot as various combinations were called out for knees and elbows. This later moved on to other such exercises, such as picking up the guy next to and lifting him a few times - fortunately it was a guy of the same size in my case, though presumably they wouldn't have expected me to lift some of the huge powerful people that train down there!

This moved on to 'body hardening', with such lovely exercises as running across people's stomachs (which I haven't done since the early months of ZSK at uni), and more intensive work jumping across them digging in knees, slamming down your body weight etc. There was also the old forearm clash from the first lesson, but thankfully the guy I was with didn't seem too interested in going particularly hard.

Dave also showed us various ways of breaking someone's hold if you were trying to put an armlock on them, and countering someone trying to put an armlock on you, by moving through their legs into guard.

One of the more senior students went through various techniques with us beginners, mainly focuses on figure-of-four variations, and its counter, which was simply lying on your own arm, though the guy said he preferred to grab his shorts to stop the arm getting locked up.

There was also plenty of rolling, sometimes with specific goals in mind and starting positions, like from guard, sidemount etc, and the aim was often to simply escape, turn over, or apply a specific submission. We also had the usual free roll as well, though less than normal.

Have to say, I'm still not massively enjoying grappling, but at least this is giving me a chance to get used to the ground and try out something new. Not sure how long I'll stick with it, particularly if I find a good stand-up class with more than one session a week, but perhaps my liking for the ground will grow in later weeks.

Club Details

Club Name: Elite Fighting System
Address: Heygate Club Room, Brandon St, Elephant & Castle, London (go to the big building down the end and up the ramp – NOT the bit that says ‘Karate Course’ a floor below)
Zip/Postal Code: SE17
Country: United Kingdom

Website: Here (note this has background audio)

Instructor: David O'Donnell
Cost: £5 per session
Styles Taught: Self-defence & MMA

Training times are Tuesday (self-defence & fitness) 19:00-21:00 & Thursday (MMA sparring) 18:30-20:30.

Training Log: MMA

(during my time at brief time at Elite, I also managed to fit in a diversion to Harrow on the way home, to a MMA club I'd been meaning to try out for ages. I was joined by Alex, a poster from Tung-Fu...)

The Mauler's Cage Fighters Gym, (MMA), Steve Dempsey, Harrow, UK - 02/09/2004

Went along with fellow poster, Alex, and as he had warned, the class was pretty fitness intensive - my shirt was a damp rag by the end of the two hours! I'm not sure how long the warm-up was (probably much shorter than it felt ), but it consisted mainly of running on the sport, 'cycling' in the air supporting our backs with our hands, a bit of shadow boxing, plus a brief stint of press-ups and sit ups. The warm-up then moved into a variation on the seal crawl, stretching the arms right out in front as we lay on our stomachs, then pulling ourselves the length of the room twice, then switching to our backs and using our shoulders, finishing with the first exercise...but this time with someone holding on to our legs.

After that came a relatively extensive session of pad-work, concentrating on punches. Pairing off, one person would moves the pads about as they wanted, while the guy with the gloves on would respond. Steve then added 'stage 2', in which the guy with the pads would grab hold of the boxer, and finally 'stage 3', where the boxer would take down his partner, moving between full mount and guard, punching all the while, finishing back where we started, then eventually switching over.The final part of the lesson was a 20 minute roll, with various partners (though I ended up with Alex twice, much to my delight ). I rolled three times, generally getting various arm locks applied to me by Alex, though I did managed to guillotine him once, albeit with in-fight help from Steve! Also gave me an active demonstration of why wrestlers used to grease up - the sweat makes holding on to someone @%$# hard!

All in all, a good workout, and as usual the seniors were helpful (well, the one I rolled with anyway and Steve - I don't think we can count Alex as a senior just yet ).

Unfortunately, its a bit late finishing at 10pm, meaning I finally got home an hour past my bedtime, plus I have the joy of Elite tonight with added aches and pains. However, I would certainly recommend Steve's club to anyone in the Harrow area, especially if you value your fitness! Come to think of it, that workout must have been long, unless I missed something out? Possibly too knackered to remember...

Club Details

Club Name: The Mauler's Cage Fighters Gym
Address: Rayners Lane, Harrow, London (short walk from tube station, a tiny little door that says Harrow martial arts)
Country: United Kingdom

Website: Here, and a women's MMA site here. Update 06/05/05: Both sites appear to be down, but the club does have a message board you could try, here.

Instructor: Steve Dempsey. Update 06/05/05: Steve has now retired (at least for the moment!), but his classes will continue under Mark Chen, a noted exponent of MMA. I look forward to trying out Mark's classes)
Cost: £5 per session
Styles Taught: Self-defence & MMA

Training times are Wednesday, 20:00-22:00.

Training Log: MMA

(during this period, I also began to try out the Heathrow meeting of a few guys from Tung-Fu, but the distance was considerable, leading me to continue with more convenient options...)

Elite Fighting Systems, (MMA), Dave O'Donnell, London, UK -27/08/2004

Started off with stand-up this time round, doing some light sparring with various partners - as usual, the seniors gave me a lot of tips on improving my punching. We then moved on to shooting in from that stand-up position, though not straight through to takedown.

The session then moved on to the usual grappling. First section was taking it in turns to go into sidemount (I think? Teminology still hazy...), and the guy on the bottom would try to pull guard while the guy on top would try and stop him. Proved to be very knackering!

After that, it was onto more specific techniques. At first, Dave showed us something called a crucifix, which looked especially nasty (apparently banned from most amateur shows), but decided that for the beginners, that was a bit tough. So instead, we tried out some neck cranks, and from the same position, an arm bar (to be used if the bloke tried to get his arm through).

The class finished up with more rolling, although this time we started from our knees. The big Indian guy who joined at the same time I did (whose name I later found out is Milan; nice bloke) dominated our little trio of beginners, beating one guy twice and me once (only sparred me once, though). Fortunately I slightly redeemed myself by getting an arm bar on the other guy, although we did have one of the seniors, Tom, commentating and showing us positions all the way through! So I don't think I can quite count that as a grappling success on my part, but still good to get the sub.

My neck isn't killing me today like I thought it would, but my upper back is - good thing I only type and make calls most of the day!

Training Log: MMA

(Returning to England in June, I began by training at a local kickboxing club I'd visited once before, and went there 2 or 3 times. I was also on the look-out for somewhere to train in London...)

Elite Fighting Systems, (MMA), Dave O'Donnell, London, UK -23/08/2004

Last Thursday I went along to Elite in Elephant & Castle, a place I'd read about and seen on TV, so was quite intrigued as to what it would be like. Took us a while to find the place, but eventually made it to the deceptively run-down building where the class is held. Despite first impressions, the gym is pretty well-equipped, with a few punching bags, plenty of mats, and loads of pads (MMA gloves, focus mitts, shin pads etc).

Dave came over to greet us, and then set us to work skipping. Soon realising we couldn’t skip for @#%$, he started the first drill, which was basically an opportunity for him to see how we were at falling down then getting up again. Dave showed us a basic breakfall, then how to get up again whilst keeping aware of the opponent (which resulted in us scuttling round until there was an opportunity to get up). We then went off to practice that amongst ourselves.

This moved on to attempts at passing the guard. Eventually one of the other members of the class pitched in to help, showing us more advanced technique. After playing around with that for awhile, yet another member of the class showed us a basic move, the armbar from mount.

Then it was time to try out passing the guard on more senior members of class; I didn’t manage it on anyone except the bloke who also happened to be a beginner (having been to one class before). Again, I found the senior members very helpful with this, as one guy carefully explained how I should keep low, and stay low, when trying to pass, going into fine detail on the methodology. Still haven’t got it sorted, but plenty of time to improve – only my first class after all!

Once we’d done that, it was time for a bit more exercise. Everyone ran round the room, then when Dave called stop, we had to grab the nearest person and roll. This meant I got teamed up with some much larger and more experienced grapplers, which occasionally hurt but was a good learning experience (probably…).

Completing that, we then moved on to sprawls, different people calling at various points, shadow boxing continuously.

Dave then demonstrated various other techniques, such as chokes, and finished with my least favourite part of the class, some ‘self-defence’, which consisted of a short play with grab escapes (and a show of disgust at the newbies, such as my myself, lack of muscle in the neck area :p ). At the very end, we did some ‘conditioning’, which involved two people smacking eachothers forearms together. Which hurt.

Definitely be back sometime this week, on either the Tuesday or Thursday session, although the Tuesday session is apparently all ‘self-defence’, which I’m really not interested in, as opposed to Thursdays ‘MMA sparring’, which is more what I want. Also depends on which night has better Olympics coverage...

Training Log: MMA

Goshin-Jutsu, (MMA), Kevin O'Hagan, Bristol, UK - 03/03/2004

Had my second class last night, which had a bit more groundwork, and some stuff on the clinch, which we didn't do last lesson.

Started off with the same warm-up as the other one, then we moved to some clinch work. First move was to go from a clinch to a guillotine, and the second was to simply lift the other person in preparation for slamming them. Before it got to the more complicated bit, we did a quick clinch exercise to warm up (its a bloody cold room!) - can't remember what Kevin called it, but it was that one where you both try and grab eachother round the waist scrabbling away at eachothers arms. Then came the more complicated bit for the previous two techniques, which now became go to a guillotine, then shoot back, take the guy down, go to side mount then round the back, sink in the hooks, push them flat onto the floor and finally a choke (still not too sure on the right terms for everthing, though...). The lift moved into a slam and then armlock. This time round I was going through techniques with a friendly guy called Rick rather than just my girlfriend.

Next we moved to practicing some groundwork techniques - armlock, kimura, triangle leg and triangle arm. Unfortunately on that armlock, I managed to hyperextend Rick's already @#%$ up elbow, causing him great pain, which made me feel like a right dick; hopefully he's ok.

That went into some free sparring on the ground (whats the MMA term for that?), which generally involved Rick strangling, squishing and generally making me tap out in various ways. Educational.

Finally, a bit of stand-up pad work, with three combos - jab cross hook, jab cross knee and jab cross roundhouse, finishing with a quick stretch and then sitting in seiza while Kevin ran through club news.

Club Details

Club Name: Bristol Goshin Jutsu Combat Academy
Address: Lifestyles Fitness Centre, Clouds Hill Road, St George, Bristol
Zip/Postal Code: BS5 7LH
Country: United Kingdom

Website: http://www.4-site.co.uk/goshin/
[Update: That site now seems to be down, so try here instead.]

Instructor: Kevin O'Hagan
Cost: £5 per session
Styles Taught: Combat ju jutsu, MMA*

MMA training times are Tuesday & Thursday 19:30-21:00, Sunday 10:30-12:00.

*I've only been to the MMA classes, so can only recommend that part of Kevin's syllabus. Check the website for further details on combat ju jutsu.

Training Log: MMA

Goshin-Jutsu, (MMA), Kevin O'Hagan, Bristol, UK - 25/02/2004

At long, long last! My first proper MMA class. It was generally a good experience, just a shame its taken me this long.

After putting on some bag mitts, class started off with a warm up split into three sections, with a break for water (which I'd cunningly forgot to bring) after each. Continual shadow-boxing was interspersed with hindu push-ups/squats, knuckle press-ups tuck jumps, sprawls, climbers, Vs (I think thats what he called them), some sit-ups and a few neck bridges.

Then the class moved on to some pad work, doing 3 basic punching combinations, which Rob and Kevin ran through - firstly, the simple jab cross jab, then jab cross hook uppercut, and finally jab cross knee knee guillotine. My girlfriend and I were happy enough with the first two, but neither of us knew how to do a guillotine properly (I've seen it and read about it, but that was the first time I'd been shown it in a class), so we kinda stuck to the first two.

After that, there was what Kevin called '50/50' sparring, which was just light stand-up with some gloves. There were two sessions of this. That was then followed by demonstration of three groundwork techniques - armlock, triangle and the kimura armlock (which was nice to finally see in action). My gf and I had enough trouble with the first one, but other members of the class helped us out. After working those three (or one, in my case!) for a while, Rob then showed us a basic choke when the opponent turns on his back from a guard, which was the final technique of the class.

It finished with a brief stretch, and then ironically at the end, we all sat in seiza (!) as Kevin ran through some news, mainly Ultimate Combat 9 and if anyone wanted tickets.

Only problem with the class was the cost - on my tight budget, £5 is a bit steep, so I'm probably only going to be able to go once a week (though I've only got til April anyway, cos I'm off travelling then back to Bucks then). Other thing I noticed, though this isn't really a disadvantage, was that the vast majority of the class seemed to consist of large, powerful men - there were two girls there, but apart from them there was no-one of my rather more modest build.